He was at the most 21 and perhaps young than that when his daughter Joanna was born. She may was indeed the fresh eldest of all people the guy fathered by their certain mistresses.
John grew up in December 1167
1187 June - John inside France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 30 - Henry production to help you The united kingdomt, maybe with John for the pull 1188 June - Henry sends John to , crosses away from 1189 June 12 - John at Le Man's whenever disarmed by the Henry's order, then John escaped otherwise is actually contributed aside getting cover 1189 July six - Henry We passes away inside France 1189 Aug. a dozen - Richard will bring John back into England which have him 1189 Aug. 29 - John married so you're able to Isabelle from Gloucester at Marlebridge 1189 September. step three - Richard crowned during the Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard sends John to the Wales so you're able to subdue the newest rebellious Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to help you and you can pressed towards oath to not ever lay legs into the The united kingdomt for a few age 1190 June - Richard continues on crusade [John holidays his oath] For our intentions, it is considered that the first period, and also the very most likely returning to Joanna getting become conceived, is the 1187-nine period. 1187 - John uses almost the season when you look at the France 1188 - John could have gone back to England inside the January, however, by the june is sent back into France, where the guy seems to have remained 1189 - John is apparently within the France January - August, going back so you can England when you look at the August when preparing to have his wedding on 30 Aug. In the event the John generated no more unrecorded production to England, it appears that he spent throughout the 80% from their go out off January 1187 until his marriage, in France . He had been at some point because of the Condition off Mortain, inside the (just before Richard's coronation).
The above mentioned advice, because of the several months and also the simple fact that Joanna was brought to The united kingdomt out of France when you look at the 1203 for their wedding so you're able to Llywelyn, lends credence into proven fact that Joanna and her mom was indeed from French/Norman resource.
Offered as well as John's better-recognized philandering during this period, around seems to be of a lot applicants into the part off mother out-of Joanna!
My personal prior article offered what that Paget indicated that they are Clemence de- Dauntsey, whom partnered Nicholas de Verdun. We thought that this was the fresh new Nicholas and you will Clementia so you’re able to exactly who Henry 111 supplied the brand new custody of Susanna (due to the fact good hostage) during the 1228. Immediately after a separate a lot of time lookup not, I will discover no shade regarding an excellent Clemence de- Dauntsey inside the the brand new suggestions. I did discover not, new view of one genealogist who demonstrably mentioned it as…’ In my opinion that individuals (the newest genealogists) established there was no for example individual because the Clemence de Dauntsey. That identity of one’s partner away from Nicholas de Verdun is an excellent mistake from the Paget!’
I am prepared to believe that end, because after that studies of one’s details of one’s next Clemence turned-out significantly more fruitful.
Normandy
Clemence ce Boteler came into this world regarding the 1175 into the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Their unique dad are Philip ce Boteler (produced circa 1150).
Clemence le Boteler hitched Nicholas de- Verdun for the 1202 (his next spouse after their relationship so you’re able to Joan Fitz Piers. Note, this wedding is not confirmed) in the Alton, Staffordshire and so they got one child, Rohese de Verdun who was produced within the 1203 or 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).
When the, indeed, Joanna is actually caused by an effective liaison between John and Clemence ce Boteler (that would was aged up to fourteen-15 at the time), it might were very hard on Ce Boteler family unit members discover the ideal spouse having Clemence. In reality some 10 years ticket in advance of a ily?) having a trusting English nobleman and you will property holder, Nicholas de Verdun. Leaving aside about Salvador in Brazil women for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had fell crazy about the new twenty seven yr old Clemence and you may wanted to get married their unique, it can was essential for John to add Clemence having specific possessions of her very own in order for she became a attractive honor to possess their unique future husband.